• From: Paris (France)
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Topic: Opera Track Style

Hello

I started a thread about Opera Track Style in mb-style and created a wiki page http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/OperaTrackStyle. Right now I feel we are missing a few user opinions to choose between the possible options we have found. I'd like interested users to update the wiki page (or discuss it here) so that we can make the necessary choices and proceed.

  • From: Paris (France)
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: Opera Track Style

We reached a decision, so this thread's topic switches to discussing test edits.

3 Reply by leivhe (edited by leivhe 2007-04-10 09:11:10)

  • From: Oslo, Norway
  • Registered: 2006-12-08

Re: Opera Track Style

Hi, I came across a case we have not covered: One part spanning two scenes.

See http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=6707790
and http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=6707943

I found a hyphen to be fitting, but maybe someone else would prefer a slash?

Alternatively, one could take the first text part from the new scene and make a new part with that. I'm against that as it is cumbersome enough, and would make for longer track titles.

Note that the track listing lets several tracks share scenes: (disc 2, tracks 7-11, e.g.)  http://harmoniamundi.com/uk/album_fiche … bum_id=503

  • From: Paris (France)
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: Opera Track Style

The general rule would be "/", it is what I used in my first OTS beta test http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=551121

In disc 3 track 4, I would have put the act number only once.

Anyhow you are right, we should mention what to do in such cases. I'd vote for "/" for consistency reasons (although if I had been part of MB at that time, I would have chosen "-" and kept "/" to mean "or")

  • From: Oslo, Norway
  • Registered: 2006-12-08

Re: Opera Track Style

davitof wrote:

The general rule would be "/", it is what I used in my first OTS beta test http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=551121

(Assuming you're thinking of e.g. the Recitative-Aria in track 5 of disc 2) See "Complex examples" on http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/OperaTrackStyle

davitof wrote:

In disc 3 track 4, I would have put the act number only once.

Again, see "Complex examples" on OperaTrackStyle.

I agree with you on both these though, so are the "Complex examples" wrong?

When it comes to the Scena II-III vs. II/III question, then, what do you and others think? Should http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MultipleTitleStyle be the guiding beacon here as well? Should it be "II / III"??

6 Reply by davitof (edited by davitof 2007-04-10 15:21:16)

  • From: Paris (France)
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: Opera Track Style

leivhe wrote:
davitof wrote:

The general rule would be "/", it is what I used in my first OTS beta test http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=551121

Nobody saw there was one mistake in my first test: track 3 should use the dash, but tracks 5 and 14 are correct.

leivhe wrote:

(Assuming you're thinking of e.g. the Recitative-Aria in track 5 of disc 2) See "Complex examples" on http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/OperaTrackStyle

No, track 5 is correct IMO. But track 7, 17 and 23 are not. The difference is that different scenes are considered as different movements, while different songs in one scene is similar to different parts in a movement.

leivhe wrote:
davitof wrote:

In disc 3 track 4, I would have put the act number only once.

Again, see "Complex examples" on OperaTrackStyle.

Repeating the act here is just as redundant as repeating the name of the symphony or the sonata when there are two movements on the same track.

leivhe wrote:

I agree with you on both these though, so are the "Complex examples" wrong?

I would have simplified the second set:
Don Giovanni: Act III, Scene I. "Là ci darem la mano" / Scene II. "Another song in a different scene"
Don Giovanni: Act III, Scene I. "Là ci darem la mano" / Scene II. An Instrumental Part in a Different Scene
I should have seen it before :(

leivhe wrote:

When it comes to the Scena II-III vs. II/III question, then, what do you and others think? Should http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MultipleTitleStyle be the guiding beacon here as well? Should it be "II / III"??

MultipleTitleStyle does not take classical music problems into account. I suppose this should be our next StyleGuide: defining in clear terms and rules what separators should be used and when. Some users have tried recently to trigger discussions on this matter, but without much success. The subject isn't very exciting, but I suggest we should settle it and then apply to the different classical sub-styles. Else we will end up with different rules for orchestral, chamber and operas!

  • From: Oslo, Norway
  • Registered: 2006-12-08

Re: Opera Track Style

davitof wrote:

tracks 5 and 14 are correct.

...SNIP....

The difference is that different scenes are considered as different movements, while different songs in one scene is similar to different parts in a movement.

But nos. 22 and 23 from track 14 are from the same scene: http://musicbrainz.org/release/e13d82db … f63c4.html.

(Whoops, I see some missing roles there, I'll put them on my todo-list.)


davitof wrote:

I would have simplified the second set:

Ok. How do we proceed on it? Follow up mb-style, suggest to change OTS and propose an extension to the beta?

davitof wrote:
leivhe wrote:

When it comes to the Scena II-III vs. II/III question, then, what do you and others think? Should http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/MultipleTitleStyle be the guiding beacon here as well? Should it be "II / III"??

MultipleTitleStyle does not take classical music problems into account. I suppose this should be our next StyleGuide: defining in clear terms and rules what separators should be used and when. Some users have tried recently to trigger discussions on this matter, but without much success. The subject isn't very exciting, but I suggest we should settle it and then apply to the different classical sub-styles. Else we will end up with different rules for orchestral, chamber and operas!

So you're proposing to postpone the question for now?

  • From: Paris (France)
  • Registered: 2006-10-05

Re: Opera Track Style

leivhe wrote:

But nos. 22 and 23 from track 14 are from the same scene

Right. So I should have used a dash. What about using the same separator for everything? Wouldn't it be nice and easy to understand?

leivhe wrote:

So you're proposing to postpone the question for now?

Yes. Note in OTS that there is a black hole in the style, and enter operas using whatever seems to work, keeping track of releases that may need correcting later. And find someone ready to saddle his white horse and bring some light into the Classical Separator Black Hole.