Record Label Questions (Page 2 of 2)

Just a small comment but I think the country variations on Labels and important.  Not only are the labels presented like that on the actual release, but sometimes these labels don't even have anything to do with each other except for their name.   

An example I would cite is Rough Trade Germany.  When the Rough Trade  label filed for bankruptcy, Rough Trade Germany carried on on its own independent from the others until being purchased by Zomba,  Rough Trade US folded there, and Rough Trade UK eventually resurfaced with support from One Little Indian. 

My point is that during a large portion of their existence, Rough Trade Germany had nothing to do with Rough Trade UK, so making these 2 labels the same in our database makes no sense.  This is only one example and has happened with many other labels as well.  Please lets keep these country divisions as they are very important and are in line with trying to provide factual data.

Sometimes they don't, most of the time they do. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but that's why we have the edit system - those exceptions can be handled and documented.

On the other hand, I don't think it makes any sense to create those national subsidiaries for international labels. They are local representatives of a bigger label, it really should be as simple as that. The label world is complex enough without artificial complications.

Where do we find proof if not on the release itself?  I don't think we should get into the mindset that if proof can't be found on the internet it doesn't exist.  Alot of info isn't on the internet, what is on the internet may be wrong, and even wikipedia makes mistakes.  For alot of labels they don't exist anymore or have gone by names that aren't used anymore and their releases are the only remaining proof.

I don't think we should allow crap labels to be added, if somebody is just adding the country name on because that's where they bought it they should be stopped.  But neither should we start changing data from what is found on the actual album simply because wikipedia doesn't mention EMI Europe.

On the one hand, look at Elektra: it's been Elektra Entertainment, Elektra Records, Elektra Music Group, and they are all entered in there, and nicely related together, and it's easy to figure out which one to enter things on with the CD's in my hand, since that's what's clearly written on them, and I therefore don't have to figure it out.

On the other hand: It would be entertaining to try to enter things straight off catalog numbers however, since a band discography is invariably going to say 'Elektra' and maybe a year, and I'm not going to know without looking at each one and figuring out dates, which of the Elektra's to add to.

It's really an issue on both sides, and in this case, what seems to be happening is that the 'I'm not sure which Elektra to use' releases are going to the 'Elektra Records' entry in the database.  I am pretty sure, if there were a simple 'Elektra' entry, they would land there instead.  So let us have 'Elektra' for the "I know it's Elektra, I just don't know which one", and anyone who really cares enough or has access to better information can move them to the specific incarnation of the label, if they want.   It's still a net gain in useful information, since we can capture the catalog information in real database fields.

On the topics of countries: Of the five CD's I have sitting next to my chair, 1 says no country (bought in the UK, UK company, why would it say UK?), 1 says (Company) Sweden, 1 says UK, 1 has (Company) AB (so that one's Swedish), and one has printing in about 5 pt type in grey on grey, so I have no idea what that one says.

It's important to note also, that it's very common for artists to be signed for local markets only, to a local subsidiary. Only those that look marketable world wide might get kicked up the ladder, or more commonly, signed up on the US UK label, and that often results in older albums being re-issued several years later, sometimes with very different track listings and catalog info, by the US or UK label.  See Sissel, or The Knife, for examples of this (take a look at all the variants of 'Deep Cuts' by The Knife, for instance, reissue after reissue as they got more successful and were noticed by bigger internationals)

So? Doesn't mean they are always correct Gecks.  It says manufactured & distributed by Caroline, but the only Label name I can see is Real World.
The label is the name on the label, not who made it or who distributed it. I've just entered a couple of hundred singles, about 50% of those were manufactured & distributed by either Decca or EMI. That doesn't mean that those are the labels.

But that doesn't mean that all the previously bastardised cat numbers have been corrected.
That release is a prime example of the cat number being changed from CAROL 2322-2 to CAR 02322-2.