1 (edited by BrianG 2006-10-08 19:18:40)

Topic: ASIN url style

the ASIN relationship style guide[1] states the following

In general URLs should follow the format http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/<ASIN> or http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/<ASIN> or any of the available Amazon shop domains.

In general..
Involving only the main features rather than precise details

so what is really wrong with edits as such where MB parses all the important information?
http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=5728638

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000002P7R

vs.

http://www.amazon.com/South-Saturn-Delta-Jimi-Hendrix/dp/B000002P7R

when all is said and done you are left with same informations

additinal thoughts..
does ASIN really need to be a URL in the first place?

I'd like to hear additional thoughts on ASIN style from the community!



[1] http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/AmazonRelationshipType

2 (edited by ZaphodBeeblebrox 2006-10-07 21:38:10)

Re: ASIN url style

it would be great if you could input just the asin (in a box)and select the domain(dropdown?) instead, then the system could calculate the correct url itself and display in the modnote, for linking. etc.

personally I think the "new style" is ugly and messy,
it prevents the "autochopper" from doing its job and we get urls with lots of session info, textual search-hints in links tend to generally Be a Bad Thing™ and I have suspections that it might break coverart linking for 3rd parties.


edit: the new amazon links do not follow a pattern. databases depend on things to have a regular expression, the fact that it still works is a testimony to the coding skills of ruaok, luks and g0llum*, not the usability of these text links. In my *very* humble opinion.


sidenote: I'm glad you started this topic, because its something thats be irritating me for a while now. I'd like to get community consensus or something on this. :)



* sorry if I left anyone out that did lots work, and sorry for using your old name ..keschte?

3

Re: ASIN url style

As the author of the edit in question (along with many many more :/ ) I'd like to know what's going on with it as well. I got notes saying to read the wiki about it and frankly I did and by the rules I didn't do anything wrong. I have looked through the amazon pages and I have yet to find one of these "right" links that I can paste. Do I have to manually delete each "artist - album" custom name in the URL and type in "gp/product" each time I submit?

As for the Wiki:

"In general URLs should follow the format http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/<ASIN> or http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/<ASIN> or any of the available Amazon shop domains."

The key words I read here are "in general" and "or any available. I didn't not see any other URLs"

"Do not edit the url manually, just copy and paste the mentioned part of the URL from your browser's URL bar"

A very clear rule if I do say.

"Amazon recently has switched their stores to use the same format for all domains."

I took this as the current URL is the new "switched" URL. If not this should be revised as it's no longer true or it's unclear

"All ASINs are OK, but some are more OK The purpose of the Amazon relationship is to provide cover images, but also additional information for releases."

Lastly this speaks for it's self.

I'm not trying to be a pain as I understand there should be a uniform way. I am a bit annoyed as I was not told before I submited that this was an issue and then asked to read the rules and seeing all my hard work cluttered with no votes. Is there an easy way to edit these ASINs I submited without canceling and starting over? I probably have near 30 ASINs in a rough estimate.

Re: ASIN url style

I personally edit the URL before I paste it into MB.  It looks cleaner and follows a regular structure.  It isn't that big of a pain, but it would be cool if MB could take what we paste from Amazon and format it correctly for us :)

Re: ASIN url style

kcar, you found my link, but did you not read the rest of my edit note?
http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=5729275

I wrote:

The wiki entry says that you should copy/paste with no modification only because of the javascript parsing which parses out the proper URL.
However, it ONLY works with /gp/product/ and /exec/obidos/ASIN/ URLs.
Not the new style amazon.tld/Product-Name-Ugliness/dp/ASIN/

I made another comment too, an easy way to get ASINs.

I also wrote:

A simple manner of getting ASINs for CDs is navigating to the page, clicking 'View Track Listings' [note, any of the links underneath 'buying info' works, if there is no track listing link] then right clicking on the 'Buying Info' link and selecing "Copy Link Location".
Paste this into the 'Relate to URL' page and as long as you have Javascript enabled, the link will be trimmed to exactly what it should be.

This is the easiest way I have EVER found to get the proper links, and you don't have to make any edits whatsoever.

Re: ASIN url style

VxJasonxV wrote:
I also wrote:

A simple manner of getting ASINs for CDs is navigating to the page, clicking 'View Track Listings' [note, any of the links underneath 'buying info' works, if there is no track listing link] then right clicking on the 'Buying Info' link and selecing "Copy Link Location".
Paste this into the 'Relate to URL' page and as long as you have Javascript enabled, the link will be trimmed to exactly what it should be.

This is the easiest way I have EVER found to get the proper links, and you don't have to make any edits whatsoever.

I must be an idiot, I'm at the amazon.com pages and none of the links you speak of exist ("View Track Listings" "Buying info").
http://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Parking/dp/B000005S6E

Maybe is depends on your logon cookies etc.?

Everywhere I click or right click I only get links like the one I have above.  What's worse a few times at amazon.co.jp I've noticed links from amazon leaving off the www.  Without it MusicBrainz isn't automatically recognizing the link as amazon.  Adding the www, fixes it and works as a link but then it's back to the amazon/title/dp/asin format.

This definately needs to be looked into but as the majority of links on amazon include the title I think we need to convert over and integrate that into our system rather trying to fight the current and deny themwhile sticking to the old style.  Wouldn't it be possible to get the server to do the change for us as has been mentioned before (or better pull domain and ASIN out of any amz links).

Lvl. 7 MusicBrainz Automod with +10 to Punk Sword, +7 to Japanese axe, and -3 to classical cloak
Lvl. 12 Last.fm Moderator with +15 Sarcasm Bow, "Seeing of Bullshit" spell, and flame+spam invulnerable armor

Re: ASIN url style

I thinking voting down valid edits because amazon has changed its urls is unwarranted and unfair. You cannot expect editors to manually edit urls.
Especially as the the much quoted http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/AmazonRelationshipType used as justification for the no-votes states not to manually edit urls.

Re: ASIN url style

mudcrow wrote:

I thinking voting down valid edits because amazon has changed its urls is unwarranted and unfair. You cannot expect editors to manually edit urls.
Especially as the the much quoted http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/AmazonRelationshipType used as justification for the no-votes states not to manually edit urls.

Have to agree here. If the system still handles the URLs correctly with the additional title info, there is no reason not to use it. However, if the system can't handle Amazon's change, then we need to look at changing MB's method of parsing the ASIN/URL.

Someone earlier mentioned having editors simply enter the ASIN and selecting the corresponding domain from a dropdown list. I think this is an excellent idea. -OR- we could use a method like Listal implements where users only submit the ASIN. Currently that site limits ASINs to those found on .com or .co.uk. Of course, I know nothing about programming, but perhaps the script could be altered to include other Amazon sites as well.

There is no moose.

Re: ASIN url style

No VxJasonxV I did read your notes. While I thank you for trying to explain it to me like Kerensky97 I could not find any of these "Buying Info and Track Listing Links" you speak of. Possibly amazon changed again? I do not know. Or I am just missing them lol.

Re: ASIN url style

First, I will express solid agreement with those suggesting that we NOT vote 'No' on ASIN edits that actually work. That just seems petty.

However, for me it raises a more interesting question. Of course Amazon, as a private company can elect to make their links and URLs work any way they wish and certainly can change them anytime they wish. But that doesn't mean we (the MB community in general and the MB database in particular) should be held hostage to their decisions. One question, how much does MB earn from Amazon to be an advertiser for them?

For all of the sturm and drang this issue has created I hope MB is being paid well!

11 (edited by ZaphodBeeblebrox 2006-10-08 18:11:25)

Re: ASIN url style

I actually agree with this "don't punish newbies for interpretating what is not spelled out well in the wikipages" also voting them down (in retrospect) I understand why is bad.

I actually had no idea that it was written this vaguely in the wiki, if anything it needs to be changed and updated, like people here have said.

for now I advocate we vote 'yes' or 'abstain' and just tell people making the mods about the issue and about VxJasonxV's 'quickly' way of getting it

also re

I must be an idiot, I'm at the amazon.com pages and none of the links you speak of exist ("View Track Listings" "Buying info").
http://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Parking/dp/B000005S6E

nope, you're not and idiot, it's amazon.com that is.
the american amazon has had removed the left sidebar for some time now, I am also having problems just generally using the site, the way I want to because of this.

for amazon.com I have this way of doing it:

go to the page by normal means and then copy the link on "See larger image"
and remove the /images bit.
eg: http://www.amazon.com/Shades-Deep-Purple/dp/B00004KD11
has the link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B00004KD11/ "See larger image"
with gives you a good http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004KD11/ link

also you could get the asin, and try doing a google/yahoo!/etc search on it, might bring up the correct link :)

but I digress. this *is* a lot of hard work to put on the shoulders of a newbie. I *don't* think its to much to ask the older, more seasoned moderators to do this, but newbies and casual moderators, it's another hassle.

I still think the best implementation would be a form to put in just the asin and a dropdown? for the domain would be the best. it would also make it so that any new changes that amazon decide to implement in their linking system in the future
won't bother us.

Re: ASIN url style

That's not a 'new style with no sidebar', that's a special page, not being sold directly our of Amazon's warehouse.
It's a different style because the product can only be coming from a seller that is selling through Amazon's marketplace.

Something like that.  It's a "special circumstance" and not the norm.
Pick something new and in stock and you'll have the sidebar.

(Wasn't there also a guideline stating not to pull ASINs from there?  Perhaps it said "don't use 3rd party vendor pages unless you can't find the official Amazon sold version.)

Something like that.

Re: ASIN url style

uhmm.. as far as I can see all amazon.com pages are without the sidebar, I certainly can't find any with it, if you can it'd be great if you could post it so we could see

~mo

Re: ASIN url style

I used the normal amazon search feature for all these. They are not vendor shops. For example:

More Buying Choices
26 used & new from $6.71

^ That would be the vendors.

As far as finding the correct links. You may hit the "26 used & new from $6.71" and then copy the " ‹ Return to product information  " link still a bitch to do but...

15 (edited by Kerensky97 2006-10-09 18:09:22)

Re: ASIN url style

Sounds like everybody is on the same page.  I think we need to change the amazon wiki page from:

"In general URLs should follow the format http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/<ASIN> or http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/<ASIN> or any of the available Amazon shop domains."
to
"In general URLs should follow the format http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/<ASIN>, http://www.amazon.com/<release&a … t;ASIN>, or http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/<ASIN> or any of the available Amazon shop domains."

...as soon as possible to clear up the confusion and no voting, and if any further work is needed on the server-end the programmers can figure out a solution (because i have no clue how all that works).

Any objections?

edit:  The auto url parse kind of screwed up one link but you get the idea.

Lvl. 7 MusicBrainz Automod with +10 to Punk Sword, +7 to Japanese axe, and -3 to classical cloak
Lvl. 12 Last.fm Moderator with +15 Sarcasm Bow, "Seeing of Bullshit" spell, and flame+spam invulnerable armor

Re: ASIN url style

The javascript thingie could be very easily fixed to parse the domain and the asin from the pasted url. aren't there any javascript volounteers around?

bleh!

Re: ASIN url style

keschte wrote:

The javascript thingie could be very easily fixed to parse the domain and the asin from the pasted url. aren't there any javascript volounteers around?

Sure, I'll look into it, so I can make up for all the harm done with my (now abstain) no votes ;) Can you point me to the place where the source is listed?

Re: ASIN url style

yep, i can: http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/browser/mb_ … nd.js#L167

you'll have to write some new regular expressions which could look something like this:

1) parse the store location from the url.

/amazon\.([a-z\.]+)\// $1 will give you the domain (.de, .fr, .co.uk, .com, .jp)

2) parse the ASIN from the url (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Sta … ion_Number)

/\/([A-Z0-9]{10})\// is my first shot, since the asin is 10-digit alpha-numeric, enclosed in slashes. the leading should be a safe assumption, but the trailing possibly not.

regards, keschte

bleh!

19

Re: ASIN url style

Hi!

I just posted this to the MusicBrainz users mailing list:

---------------
Awesome! I just changed the link type to read:

"This link type is used for Amazon ASINs. This allows users to link to the Amazon pages to show the right cover art if MusicBrainz does not have the right ASIN link already.

Paste any URL to any Amazon product page that contains an Amazon ASIN and the ASIN will be parsed from that URL."

So, from now on please paste complete Amazon URLs.

Thanks!
---------------

I've also updated the Wiki page.

Re: ASIN url style

Thanks Rob - a much needed amendment to the wiki.

21 (edited by keschte 2006-10-10 22:27:06)

Re: ASIN url style

i don't think this is a good idea, what about the stuff that is appended to the URLs?

a full amazon url looks like this

http://www.amazon.com/Details-Frou/dp/B00006EXLQ/sr=8-1/qid=1160519091/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2660641-6153751?ie=UTF8

, you are now suggesting that the full stuff can be added as a relationship. while it is true that the asin and the shop is parsed, the asin-AR will be displayed exactly as entered above.

bleh!

Re: ASIN url style

What exactly will be done with the info the parser extracts?

23 (edited by keschte 2006-10-10 22:34:20)

Re: ASIN url style

i guess it needs to be stated that there are 2 different things people seem to mix up:

1) the javascript which is used on the add relationship page (which i assumed needs to be fixed, mainly)
2) the server-side code which extracts the asin and the shop from the relationship data. This AFAIK already works with any kind of pasted amazon shop url containing an ASIN.

but afaik, the idea is to produce consistent data, using the static url formats which were previously shown on the wiki page, without concerning the users with this problem.

bleh!

24 (edited by BrianG 2006-10-10 23:36:32)

Re: ASIN url style

keschte wrote:

the asin-AR will be displayed exactly as entered above.

where do you mean it will be displayed as such?
the URL information page?


if we still need consistent data, make the process as simple as possible
-only store the ASIN and the top level domain no matter what is enter as an ASIN URL
-have MB automatically present the URL in a consistent fashion using the ASIN and top level domain that it parsed when someone enters an amazon URL containing the ASIN.

MB almost already does this..
the problem is that it's using the URL people entered rather than using the data that it should parse from the URL people entered

i've created a bug that represents what i see as the simplest/non-confusing way to implement ASIN to MB
http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/2212
because currently to me it still seems like ASIN implementation and documentation on MB live has a bit of confusion and bugs.

Re: ASIN url style

Lately I've noticed that clicking on album image art takes me to a broken link in Amazon. Then I go back and find that it tried to find the ASIN on the American Amazon, while the ASIN according to the relationship is for Amazon.jp, or whatever.

I also agree that simply adding the ASIN and then picking the domain from a drop down menu is the best solution. Then get some code that fills in the rest. This will avoid broken links and confusion if (when) Amazon changes their URL design again. If they do change their format, then only MB needs to change the code. It's also THE most simple option of getting the right URL, rather than clicking on "Track Listing" or whatever ;)