Topic: Multi-disk track list bug?

All,

I have observed recently that all my applications that use MusicBrainz to retrieve track info for CDs I'm "ripping" have developed a very annoying habit.  When retrieving tracks for _one_ disc of a multi-disc release they display _all_ the tracks for _all_ discs as though it was one huge CD.  Specific releases which display this behavior are:

Pink Floyd's The Wall (any of the 2 CD sets)
John Williams' Star Wars (any of the 2 CD sets)

Programs that exhibit this behavior: MusicBrainz Picard v 0.11, Sound Juicer v 2.28.2 (both running under Debian GNU/Linux stable/squeeze distribution).  My question is: is this a bug (in which case I'll report it to the MusicBrainz bug tracker), or just an extremely useless and irritating "feature"?

Cheers
Dr. Arthur Dent

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

THis is indeed very annoying, Picard 0.14 has the same bug of course.

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

Yes, this is a known issue that's already been reported on the forums/mailing lists/IRC many times.

I wouldn't call it a mistake or oversight, or a "feature" as you've joked. It's more the fact that Picard hasn't been updated to use the new NGS web service yet, which can return the discs separately as intended.

A beta version that supports multi-disc releases properly will probably be released very soon, so be patient for now.

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

Nine99:  Thanks for letting me know that it's not just me. :)  One always has to wonder.

bitmap: Okay, if it's been reported already then I won't add to the noise.  However, I _did_ search both the forums and Google using what seemed to me to be reasonable keywords ("multi-disc", "multiple disc", "track list", "picard" and various permutations and combinations) but found nothing.  Hence my post here.

Re.: "It's more the fact that Picard hasn't been updated to use the new NGS web service yet, which can return the discs separately as intended." and "A beta version that supports multi-disc releases properly will probably be released very soon, so be patient for now."

If this is really true (that it's the client-side apps that need updated not the server) then it's very sad because it means they broke compatibility for every MusicBrainz enabled app each of which will need to be fixed individually.  It will probably be well over a year before most stable Linux distributions have fully functional apps again.  Consider.  Let's say (optimistically) a month for the beta Picard release, six months (?) for a stable release,  a month for someone to bundle it into a Debian package in "unstable", and six months for that to percolate to to "stable".  (If you think that's excessive consider that the Picard ChangeLog shows 0.12 was released by MusicBrainz on 2009-10-25 and it _still_ isn't in Debian "stable").  And before someone says "Just download it and build it yourself" I already tried (briefly) to build Picard v 0.14 and it fails in 'python setup.py config".  And that's just Picard.  SoundJuicer and other MusicBrainz enabled apps need to pick up the changes too.  I'll guess I'll have to seriously consider going back to FreeDB and checking on MusicBrainz in a year or so.

Cheers
Dr. Arthur Dent

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

When bitmap said very soon, he meant today, not in one month.

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

Sounds like you're frustrated with problems with Linux in general, rather than anything MB can do anything about, unless it had an army of people doing the political wrangling to push stuff into every single distro's "stable" area. Which probably ain't gonna happen. Especially when it's not currently stable. :)

But neither is it realistic to expect a major server system to be able to have a completely backwards compatible web service when it migrates its entire schema. I think that the MB dev team did a pretty good job overall; and the neglect of many Linux applications to monitor what's going on with the service they use for data is another frustration.

Have you tried any of the 0.15 beta versions at luks' PPA at https://launchpad.net/~luks/+archive/musicbrainz-daily ?

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

Any ideas how to get it to load the plugins again? I add them to the folder and it only shows the ones I installed with Synaptic :L I want to use Advanced Title Case Plugin

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

Did you put it in ~/.config/MusicBrainz/Picard/plugins per the instructions at http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Picard_Plugins ? It should dynamically load them at startup, but believe it needs write access to wherever the plugin is. Otherwise, suggest you check the Help > View Log. Perhaps Advanced Title Case isn't compatible.

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

Dr. Dent has a really good point that if you're ripping a multi-disc set with Sound Juicer or Audex or any other ripper that uses MusicBrainz as a source of track info it will not work, and you probably won't know why it stopped working. People who use Picard for tagging have more specific knowledge of MusicBrainz and the NGS transition, at least have a clue to look in the MusicBrainz forums or bug tracker, but as he said, searching the net for why Audex doesn't work is not helpful. I didn't get any useful results.

So this is not a rant or a pile-on. Rather, I'm trying to cram enough keywords in here that maybe Google will direct people having trouble or problems with CD rippers and multi-disc sets, that is to say box sets, of multiple discs, to these forums and they'll understand what's going on.

So if you're trying to use Audex or SoundJuicer or another ripper with MusicBrainz support, and you have a problem with multiple discs, having to manually edit tracklists, this thread has some info for you. Disc two of a two-disc set will rip with the same track names as disc one. Box sets with more than 2 discs will have the same problem with all discs except the first disc.

I don't have any work-around for SoundJuicer users.

For Audex, you can turn off "Enable MusicBrainz lookup" in the "CDDB Settings" of "Configure Audex".  Leave "Enable freedb lookup" enabled -- or check it if not selected.

Users of "abcde" can just rip as usual, since MusicBrainz support has to be set up manually. (Turn if off in your config if you've enabled it, but this is command-line world so you probably already figured out the problem).

Windows and Mac CD ripper users probably have similar issues, but I'm not familiar with your configuration. If possible, disable MusicBrainz support for now and use another source for track info.

In all cases, make sure the maintainer of your application knows that there are problems naming and tagging the 2nd (and 3rd, etc.) disc of multiple CD sets until the app is updated to use MusicBrainz next generation. When a stable-enough version of Picard (for your distro and taste) with NGS support is available, go back and tag to get that sweet MusicBrainz info.

For me, I don't care that much about track numbering or disc numbering of my digital audio. I rip my recordings to play them on the computer or the media center or portable player, etc. ₣om my personal perspective, dividing up songs by disc number or LP or cassette number and side is an artifact of the physical medium that doesn't matter to me at the point. So I can rip with Audex (using freedb tagging), re-tag the songs with Picard (even without NGS support) and just be on my way. Naturally, if someone needs the original media info, then this approach is not helpful to them, they'll need to get a beta or wait for a stable fix.

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

This is a serious problem with musicbrainz.  The server should never be changed in a way which breaks clients.  There should always be backwards compatibility.

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

What musicbrainz should have done is to have a new interface with the new behavior, and leave the old interface with the old behavior.  This is a very common problem with software upgrades.  Changes in the server should *never* cause changes in the client.

So no, the upgrade did not happen smoothly.  Clients are broken for a long period of time.

12 (edited by voiceinsideyou 2012-02-06 09:59:20)

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

(Edit: Post now makes no sense as previous post deleted)

I doubt there's any point logging more tickets directly with SJ team - it's been logged to death.

See https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=652972 for the canonical issue; which appears to have been addressed in the Sound Juicer 2.32.x stream - not sure if released.

I guess you'll either need to compile yourself from latest or wait for it to hit your distro...

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

Thanks voiceinsideyou, I didn't realise that there was an existing bug (I couldn't find it because it has been fixed).

Re: Multi-disk track list bug?

I know this "bug" from my old soundjuicer 2.28.x. As workaround I tried to choose only those tracks which were on the respective CD. In most cases this worked well. If not, only the first track were recorded under multiple names with the same byte count.

Otherwise one can take grip instead. I tested v3.3.1 without any problems.