• Registered: 2012-04-18

Topic: Classical Artist Role: Track vs Release. Also Various Artist query

Hello, I've signed up to Musicbrainz to catalogue my classical CD collection, and have just created my first new entry (http://musicbrainz.org/release/2f38664e … a0cab5484d). I'm referring to the guidelines with respect to artist role relationships, and I think I've got it right, but I wanted to double check.

I've related the soloist, conductor and orchestra to each individual track, even though they are the same for all the tracks of the release. This is as per the guideline: "If the relationship is applicable to all tracks on a release, apply it to every work or recording on the release". Am I correct?

I'm comparing this against a CD of mine which is already in the database, and which I believe is incorrect (http://musicbrainz.org/release/b1adb4f7 … 0a1c6c9475). Amongst other issues, Jessye Norman is credited against the release, when she only features on the final track. I would have thought the guidelines suggest that all global relationships (in this case, conductor, orchestra, and, for the final track, soprano soloist) should be applied to the individual tracks?

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Secondly, I've created my new entry with Mozart and R Strauss as the artists (the composers in this case), rather than as Various Artists. I'm not sure of the subtleties of when to choose.

Thanks in advance!

  • From: Singapore
  • Registered: 2007-02-13

Re: Classical Artist Role: Track vs Release. Also Various Artist query

dgmckay wrote:

I've related the soloist, conductor and orchestra to each individual track, even though they are the same for all the tracks of the release. This is as per the guideline: "If the relationship is applicable to all tracks on a release, apply it to every work or recording on the release". Am I correct?

Looks correct to me.

dgmckay wrote:

Amongst other issues, Jessye Norman is credited against the release, when she only features on the final track. I would have thought the guidelines suggest that all global relationships (in this case, conductor, orchestra, and, for the final track, soprano soloist) should be applied to the individual tracks?

Correct. If it is known that she's only on the final track, the relationship should be only on that recording/track. Likewise, conductor and orchestra credits should be on each recording rather than the release. Then the release-level credits can be removed. These relationships were added way back in 2005 when the guidelines and database were a lot different to what they are now. Apart from guidelines, back then it was even more painful to add relationships to multiple tracks/recording at the same time so it was not often done.

voiceinsideyou's Website

  • Registered: 2012-04-18

Re: Classical Artist Role: Track vs Release. Also Various Artist query

Thanks for the quick and positive response. Much appreciated!

voiceinsideyou wrote:

Apart from guidelines, back then it was even more painful to add relationships to multiple tracks/recording at the same time so it was not often done.

How do you do that? I ended up adding the relationships to my newly created release one by one! And, yes, it was painful!

  • From: Czech Republic
  • Registered: 2008-03-17

Re: Classical Artist Role: Track vs Release. Also Various Artist query

Welcome to MusicBrainz!

dgmckay wrote:

... have just created my first new entry (http://musicbrainz.org/release/2f38664e … a0cab5484d). I'm referring to the guidelines with respect to artist role relationships, and I think I've got it right, but I wanted to double check.

I've related the soloist, conductor and orchestra to each individual track, even though they are the same for all the tracks of the release. This is as per the guideline: "If the relationship is applicable to all tracks on a release, apply it to every work or recording on the release". Am I correct?

Yes, you are correct. These relationships logically belong to the recordings because the performers performed the music contained in the recording.
The important practical consequence shows up when you reuse the recording object (eg. in a compilation) - it carries its relationships with it.

I noticed that you linked "The Chamber Orchestra of Europe" performance once as "chamber orchestra" and 3 times as "orchestra". Similarly you linked "Douglas Boyd" performance twice as "oboe" and twice as "solo oboe". I suppose this was not intentional?

Do you know that you can create a relationship for multiple tacks at once? In the release page you click on "Relate to ..." and select "Relate to recordings".

Also it is strongly recommended to add a link to a reliable online information about the edited objects (recording label page, album cover scans, Discogs, Amazon, Allmusic, review etc.) to the edit note so that other editors could vote on your edits.

One last thing :) The classical style guideline has changed recently (finally! :) and now both the composers and performers should be put into the artist field:
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Classical

dgmckay wrote:

I'm comparing this against a CD of mine which is already in the database, and which I believe is incorrect (http://musicbrainz.org/release/b1adb4f7 … 0a1c6c9475). Amongst other issues, Jessye Norman is credited against the release, when she only features on the final track. I would have thought the guidelines suggest that all global relationships (in this case, conductor, orchestra, and, for the final track, soprano soloist) should be applied to the individual tracks?

Yes, the relationships should be at the individual tracks/recordings. If you want you can correct the release by moving the relationships.
Probably the original editor did not know which individual recordings should have which relationship or (s)he was just lazy.

dgmckay wrote:

Secondly, I've created my new entry with Mozart and R Strauss as the artists (the composers in this case), rather than as Various Artists. I'm not sure of the subtleties of when to choose.

In http://musicbrainz.org/release/2f38664e … a0cab5484d ?
That is correct. The decision depends on the number of artists. Normally you use Various Artists with compilations and samplers.

pabouk's Website

  • Registered: 2012-04-18

Re: Classical Artist Role: Track vs Release. Also Various Artist query

pabouk wrote:

I noticed that you linked "The Chamber Orchestra of Europe" performance once as "chamber orchestra" and 3 times as "orchestra". Similarly you linked "Douglas Boyd" performance twice as "oboe" and twice as "solo oboe". I suppose this was not intentional?

I was torn between the two for each, but couldn't seem to change them back once I'd decided on a consistent strategy? Or are my subsequent changes backed up for voting?

pabouk wrote:

Do you know that you can create a relationship for multiple tacks at once? In the release page you click on "Relate to ..." and select "Relate to recordings".

I do now! I'll try that later.

pabouk wrote:

One last thing :) The classical style guideline has changed recently (finally! :) and now both the composers and performers should be put into the artist field:
http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Classical

So my new entry should have Berglund/Boyd/CoE as artists as well? Is there an example entry you could point me at which illustrates this? There didn't seem to be one on the style guide link.

Thanks for the help!

  • From: Singapore
  • Registered: 2007-02-13

Re: Classical Artist Role: Track vs Release. Also Various Artist query

dgmckay wrote:

I was torn between the two for each, but couldn't seem to change them back once I'd decided on a consistent strategy? Or are my subsequent changes backed up for voting?

They will be in the queue yes. You can view your "Open edits" from your profile and cancel them if you want to redo them though.

voiceinsideyou's Website

  • Registered: 2007-12-19

Re: Classical Artist Role: Track vs Release. Also Various Artist query

dgmckay wrote:

So my new entry should have Berglund/Boyd/CoE as artists as well? Is there an example entry you could point me at which illustrates this? There didn't seem to be one on the style guide link.

Thanks for the help!

The description for deciding which composers/performers should be used as release artists is shown here:

http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Classi … ase/Artist

Note this applies to release groups and releases, not to individual tracks/recordings, for which the artist is still just the composer.